The Muslim Debate Initiative (self described), is a grassroots-to-high level project, formed by experienced Muslim debaters, apologists, political analysts, researchers and speakers from all sections of the Muslim community. MDI aims at promoting debate, dialogue, discourse and discussion between all sections of the global community.
London British National Party was asked to send a delegate to its debate Islamification of Britain : Reality or Myth? which was held on the 11th December at Conway Hall in Central London. Here is the text of Mr Jeffrey Marshall’s, Central London Organisers, speech.
Jeffrey Marshall
I would like to begin by thanking the Muslim Debate Initiative for graciously inviting me to participate in this debate and to speak on behalf of my party, the British National Party.
It is a great honour.
I am here – I think – as a pro-Islamificationist, which doesn’t mean that I or my party approve of this tendency. Only that we see it as something real, something we British ought to resist.
So why are we becoming Islamified? The first reason is fundamental to the presence of Islam in this country. Mass immigration. Since the end of the Second World War, Britain has been completely transformed, starting with the arrival of SS Windrush in 1948. Successive Labour and Conservative governments have created and presided over such huge changes that our society would be no longer recognizable today to anyone growing up in the 1930s, ‘40s, ‘50s or ‘60s.
Insofar as the immigrants have consisted of Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Turkish and others, the immigrant wave has been Muslim. And so large areas of British towns and cities have become recognizably Muslim. You have Bradford, Oldham and Leeds in the north of England . You have Hounslow and Southall to the west of London . You have Newham and Tower Hamlets in East London .
Tower Hamlets now has a Muslim majority, a bare majority, just over 50% of its population. Nevertheless over half of its political representatives are now Muslim. The local schools are filled with Muslim children and in many of the primary schools – not faith schools but state schools – the figure is over 90%.
What does this say about the future of Tower Hamlets? That is going to become Muslim? If so, what does this mean for Tower Hamlets and the rest of us? Can this area any longer be regarded as English in a cultural sense? There are some churches still in Tower Hamlets but you never seem to hear their bells. What you hear instead is the amplified noises of the mosque, such as East London Mosque, calling the faithful to prayer.
What’s it like there now in Tower Hamlets? When you walk in Whitechapel Road you could be in Karachi or anywhere in Pakistan or Bangladesh . Muslim women, young and middle-aged (I think) are dressed in black burkas covering them from head to toe with their faces totally hidden, except for their eyes.
There are halal butchers in profusion and also a great many small law firms, usually located above shops, all of them specializing in immigration. Certainly they assist some immigrants who are already here. But they also assist in the process of adding even more to the total numbers of immigrants by processing asylum claims.
What’s like to live there? Not always easy. There are a few Christian churches, as I mentioned, but only in the weak liberal sense that the Anglican church may be considered Christian today. Very keen on interfaith dialogues, that sort of thing. Occasionally the vicars get attacked by Muslim youths.
Last year Canon Michael Ainsworth was attacked by Asian youths outside his church in Shadwell. They called him a fucking priest and told him his church ought to be a mosque. Bricks were thrown through the windows of the 18th century church. A few weeks later, a rector was attacked in his church in Bethnal Green.
There have been violent attacks on white – and black – people in that area by Asian Muslims. After the 7/7 bombings in 2005 the number of attacks increased.
Two years ago, the Centre for Social Cohesion reported that the new Ideas Stores in Tower Hamlets, which have replaced the public libraries, were encouraging Islamic extremism. The report was called Hate on the State by James Brandon and Douglas Murray. It stated that the libraries contained no fewer than 11 copies of Milestones by Sayyid Qutb, required reading for groups like Hizb ut Tahrir. Qutb urges violent jihad against all non-Muslim forms of government.
There are around 380 works by Dilwar Hussein Sayeedi, who was invited to speak at East London Mosque. Sayeedi has compared Hindus to excrement.
There are also three copies of two books by Abu Hamza. In one of these, called something unpronounceable and Jihad, he tells his readers it is permissible to kill Muslims who are opposed to what he regards as the truth, citing the example of Muhammad to prove his point.
So Islam has its dark side then. Let us be clear though. The problem with libraries filled with Islamic hate literature, or attacks on white people going virtually unreported in the mainstream press, should not be laid entirely at the door of Muslims. These problems are caused by the liberal ethos of politicians we elect to govern us.
These liberals – by which I mean liberals in the Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrat parties – have created a culture which has allowed these dangerous influences to flourish.
There is a vacuum – a sort of spiritual and moral vacuum – which has been created by liberalism which is in some places being filled by Islam.
In the BNP we have drawn attention to the darker side of Islam, but we are not obsessed by it. What we need to do instead though, to counter it, is to emphasise our own culture and values. This means that not everything under a BNP government would be tolerated as it is now.
We would ban the burka. To us English the hidden face is sinister, and reminds us of terrorists and highwaymen.
The Swiss vote in favour of banning minarets is something we would replicate. The skyline should not be dominated by mosques which should be smaller constructions, appropriate to a foreign faith.
Sharia law exists here, as the Archbishop of Canterbury says, in the form of arbitration and civil law. Needless to say, this should never become part of our criminal law.
Finally, I would like to re-emphasise what Nick Griffin referred to recently on Question Time as a truce with Muslims. I would remind you that the Labour government has colluded in the murder of some 800,000 Muslims in its wars on Iraq and Afghanistan . The Conservatives also support the war. Why Muslims would vote for either of these parties I simply cannot understand.
The BNP has always been against the war and we intend to withdraw our troops immediately from Afghanistan .
The BNP and Muslims were right all along about not invading Muslim lands.
We have other things in common too. The BNP and Muslims both support family values. According to a survey carried out this year, 63% of British Muslims thought that the death penalty was morally acceptable. 77% said they strongly identified with the UK . And the numbers of Muslims who thought that homosexuality was morally acceptable was 0%.
It seems to me that Muslims could do a lot worse than vote BNP.
Thank you very much.
Can we see some of the photos that were taken? It should wind up the liberals and commies to see us being invited to a debate with a whole range of different groups. They were outside pleading with the Muslims to abandon the debate and threatening people as they came in!
British children are being born with the virus of racism. All of them show racism even at nursery level. Muslim children are victim of racism in every walk of life. They are unable to develop self-confidence and self-esteem.. They need state funded Muslim schools right from nursery level. Since they are bilingual, they need bilingual Muslim teachrs as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place foir a non-Muslim child and a teacher in a Muslim school.
There are hundreds of state and church schools, where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools.
Bilingual Muslim children need to learn and be well versed in standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time, they need to learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.
A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit.
How dare you accuse British infants of being intrinsically racist, our children have been educated in this benighted country by the Marxist bleeding heart liberal educational system for at least four decades. If you cull two generations of free thinkers what you are left with is imbeciles, not fit to think for themselves. How can imbeciles force fed PC propaganda and lies about the benefits of the multicultural/diverse/rainbow nature of their own country be racist?
Your rank hypocrisy shines through the taqqya of your post. It is the stated intent of islam to oppose, overthrow, and destroy any opposition to the cult of the "dead paedo" and if not by stealth then by violence. If you accept that the "dead paedo" is the messenger of the Prophet pbuh then you also accept the the Koran with all its additions from the "paedo" and his progeny of racist preachers.
Your self pitying ” Oh!!! poor muslim children hard done by and hated by all and sundry” strikes me as another attempt to make the UIs feel more guilty than the UIs already feel.
I have no idea where you were born, and I don't give a fig where it was. You are living in what I assume you and your fellow visitors feel to be a foreign country, but wish to change what we are into what you are. Well I have news for you.
It aint gonna happen.
Nice one mate!
… Screamingmad … extremely well-stated and well-explained … couldn't put it better if I tried … and considering the mortal situation for us Christians posed by mindless followers of a murderous paedocultist … extremely restrained … more people should know what `TAQQYA' means …
… Merry Christmas to all British nationalists …
Iftikhar1, you're a moron. I have muslim neighbours who consistently refer to other muslims as "my people". They are more racist than any white people. I live in an area that is 50% muslim, yet 85% of our councillors are muslims. White people will vote for muslims, but muslims won't vote for white people (unless they can use it get special treatment, like with Jack Straw).
They openly admit that when they want to get things done through the council, they don't go through the normal procedures, but instead find some relative who works in a department and go through them. One 24 year old muslim neighbour was telling me how three of his siblings have houses in the neighbouring blocks (one of the nicer parts of Tower Hamlets). Yet my elderly white neighbour says her daugher (who has a child) can't get any housing in the area.
"He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. " When in Rome do as the Romans do. If you don't want to assimilate, if you don't feel British to your core, if you don't want to be part of what makes Britain Great (it's people and culture) then you are a parasite to our country and should remove yourself to a place which is more in tune with your culture and thinking. This is Britain – you should always remember that and you are here by the good grace of the British people – if you spit in our faces, refuse to accept our ways then that good grace can easily be removed.
Muslims should really be living in Muslim countries.
I would be interested in knowing what the response to that speech was by the audience.
And thus ends the Party Poliyical Broadcast on behalf of the BNP given to a people who despise Democracy and who are forbidden by the Quran to integrate with non-believers. Surah 3:28 "Take not the unbelievers for your friends/Allies…"
Your speech clearly shows how much you clearly don't care about the problems faced by British people in, you say
" ….large areas of British towns and cities have become recognizably Muslim. you have Bradford, Oldham and Leeds in the north of England . you have Hounslow and Southall to the west of London . you have Newham and Tower Hamlets in East London ."
This surely put a smile on their face and boosted their morale as they rush to swell their numbers with the british people who suffer from a moral vacuum.
How dare you utter such words to these people & call yourself a Patriot. You were there simply to do what all you sodding politicians do, get votes, tell em anything, do anything, but get their votes, it's obvious and they saw right through you. How many do you think you gained?
Well mate, the BNP just lost one!
You could have done so much better, this performance, 2 out of 10
I don't see why you think I don't care about the problems of British people in the areas you mentioned. Your approach seems to be that Islamification of towns and cities in the UK is best dealt with by keeping quiet about it. And the exercise was less to gain votes than to show that some sort of dialogue is possible.
Personally I see the government as a bigger enemy than Muslims – no matter what quotes from the Koran you drag out to bolster your position. You say Muslims hate democracy. That explains the large number of Asian councillors, I suppose.
That's just it Jeffrey, U just don't C.
I am not a Muslim, I don't play with words, I speak the truth.
The last thing this country needs is a new bunch of slimeballs who water down the truth to placate the political palate.
The loss of our citys should have been screamed in their faces, not whimpered in their ears.
If you want dialogue, debate the UAF, debate the Socialists, debate the Mainstream parties, but don't debate the Muslims, your not clever enough!
Yes the Mainstream Parties have lost their way.
You say I Drag quotes from the Koran, I don't drag them out you prat, I quote them, AS SHOULD U, as do they.
I have no position you…….. , my stance is that of the defense, defense from Islamification & the ensuing, inevitable, Shariah Law.
Your last comment seems to have missed the point of my first point Surah 3:28. "…except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah."
The Fundamentalists will follow the moderates, when the time comes. I suppose
Grant: It's 'YOU'RE' not clever enough. NOT 'YOUR' not clever enough. ok?
"I have no position you…….. , my stance is that of the defense, defense from Islamification & the ensuing, inevitable, Shariah Law."
Sounds like a defensive position to me, Grant. So what would make Sharia 'inevitable'? Only a failure on our part to defend our own culture and its values. The important thing is to let Muslims know what is expected of them if they are going to continue living in this country.
On the other hand, though, any social conservative would look enviously at some Muslim values.
Today's legally enforced equality of homosexual marriage, for example – the expectation that gays should be equally entitled to marry and adopt children.
No Muslim would ever tolerate that!
Yet our supposedly Christian culture has completely failed to withstand this assault on normality and common sense…….
(2) What about the destruction of the traditional family carried out by the Labour government?
Christians haven't managed to resist this either – because the Church of England is in the pocket of this government.
Cof E vicars are even prohibited by law from joining the BNP!
The UK needs remoralising and we should have the sense to adopt some aspects of what is a more resiliant and uncompromising religion than our own, whilst dumping the LibLabCon's failed multiculturalism which has given Muslims the feeling they can do whatever they like here.
Perhaps they are using democracy to destroy democracy!
Grant..
You say "How many (votes) do you think you gained?
Probably none among the Muslim community, which is to be expected, But I would bet a few eyebrows were raised among the floating-voter community who thought they would never see a British National Party spokesman invited to speak at a Muslim forum. A brilliant coup in my opinion, one that can be cited again and again whenever we are attacked by the liberal elite or the MSM as being "racist" or unable to communicate on any level with the Muslim community.
10 out of 10
Onwards and upwards.
I'm with Grant. Here's another BNP vote you just lost (and after I show this page to a few friends, I can guarantee they won't be voting BNP either). I was actually going to volunteer to go door-to-door canvassing for Nick Griffin.
In sucking up to the muslims, you've shown you're no better than them. You don't represent the British values of tolerance and respect for the individual.
How was he sucking up to Muslim? By telling them that he wanted to stop immigration, fight for his values and ban minarets? By pointing out, rightly, that there is common ground with regard to the illegal and immoral wars being fought in Muslim countries? Can you not comprehend what has just occured? The bit about Muslims voting BNP was not a shameless solicitation of votes but an attempt to highlight the idiocy of them voting LIB-LAB-CON who don't even represent Muslim values.
Joe and Grant,
I'm glad you've both left The British National Party. Your posts clearly have racist overtones, to which the now massive majority of members and supporters of this party, have no affinity with. There is more chance of this party achieving representation in parliament with members/supporters like you in it, than flying to the moon on a firework. I Firmly believe that, after reading your posts on this subject and your subsequent resignation of support for the party, will act as a recruiting-Sergent, and the loss of your two votes will be replaced ten-fold by non-racist Nationalists which this party welcomes.
I hope you have a great time in UKIP.
I also find Grant's mixture of Oxford Dictionary words and text-speak quite bizarre.
Calm down Grant. Arguing between ourselves can be done after the battle. Splitting the vote is the worst possible thing a nationalist can do. It would play into the hands of the enemy, even more so than "soft talk".
Soft talk is needed though. We need a majority to make a change. I think the soft talk was not aimed at the muslims. It was aimed at the middle class. It s a political play and frankly a good one. Bite down on your tongue and stand with us. Our day will come.
Reg, The BNP have got two chances of getting into power, one is called hope & the other is called bob. Why should I calm down as you suck up to Fundamentalists practicing Dawaa.
Better you state the truth and define what is acceptable from Muslims & what is not!!
Debate the UAF, on TV with privately paid airtime if neccesary, But debate them!!
If they will not debate then shout at the British Public untill they will.
reg: i'ts a good thing to be a peace maker , and youre right that internal squables between bnp supporters can only do us great harm…..but……this post has highlighted a deep division between the new bnp and the old :the new want a positive, engaged, and a pro-active dialogue with all immigrant communities. with the aim in veiw of a native british solution to the unacceptable mass third world colonisation of our country:if we ever achieve power and have to put our policies into action, and do so in a way that decent civilized british people can accept ,we must have a fair frank and honest relationship with those immigrant communities, many of whom secretly sympathise with bnp policies: those who dont want such a dialogue, that is the old bnp,prefer the northern ireland solution:barracaded communities,that attack, despise, hate, abuse, and finaly murder each other: its christmas:peace on earth,and good will to all men:
Well said, chris.
Grant..
You're obviously an intelligent man. Why not consider, rather than turning your back on the BNP, joining and maybe becoming a Councillor yourself?
It could then be you debating with these groups-thereby making a valuable contribution to the cause….
Best wishes, whatever you decide.
Thankyou Mrs C
Yesterday I Joined UKIP as a fully paid up member, I also made a sizeable donation & offered my professional services for free.
Lord Pearson achieves tangible debate by inviting Geert Wlder & showing Fitna to the British Public http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vlv3KNJ446g
Lord Monckton achieves tangible debate by going to Copenhagen
Nigel Farage did a fantastic interview on the Alex Jones Show http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t8Pc49f10s & has won over the Truther movement
What has the BNP done, what can they do, nothing. Unfortunately you have been too tarnished by the Establishment to get any power in 2010.
UKIP came 2nd in the last National Elections!!
UKIP are the ONLY party that has a chance in the next elections
UKIP will get us out of the Marxist EUSSR, I'm afraid a vote for the BNP this Election will only serve to weaken our chances of getting out of the EU. Stay BNP if you wish, but in the 2010 Elections Vote UKIP & Save Britain!!!
Help Achieve the objectives, don't just help get BNP get a couple of seats in a Powerless Parliament.
Best wishes, whatever you decide.
Grant,
Thank you for your contribution to this thread,I am sure UKIP is grateful for your money, and the offer of your no doubt considerable talents.
If I could draw your attention to a point or two, and digress from the post for a while. Lord Pearson was extremely brave to invite Geert Wilders to present Fitna, I may be pounced on here, but I don't recall him being a member of UKIP at the time, neither was Lord Monckton. I was impressed with Mr Farage' interview with Alex Jones, and yes, he is a fine interviewee.
Yes you are correct in stating we have been tarnished by "The Establishment", but ask yourself why we are castigated and demonised, could it be that the true voice of the anti EU is the BNP!! Whereas during the Euro campaign UKIP had free reign with the MSM?
How much air time was Mr Farage allowed to present UKIP as the dissenting voice of Europe, yet what have they done to remove us from the undemocratic organisation?
That covers your first five statements.
The next should be turned back on yourself. As I said before what has UKIP done to remove the UK from the EU? Apart from having a very eloquent speaker, and ripping a new arse for Barosso, and dressing up in chicken suits. What have they discovered in the bowels of Brussels that could damage the Commission, what has Marta done about the corruption she knows exists, (by the way, you know of course that Mrs Andreasson is a reformer and not a "get us out of the EU stalwart" don't you.
Mr Farage is stepping down from his seat in the cesspit of Brussels (not Brussels itself of course) and standing as a prospective MP in the “Powerless Parliament” you mention. Why would this be?
I suggest you reexamine the UKIP case, and take an objective view of the supposedly anti EU party you have just paid good money to join. Then ask yourself this!! What other policies do UKIP have?
This is gold. So you were dissapointed that one BNP speech was not anti-Islamic enough for your taste, so you joined UKIP. My apologies if other people can vouch for you but to me you show all the signs of being a troll.
Former Jugoslavian U R a Fecklass Prat, Your Non-Sequitarial mindset is indicative of your 3rd world Ancestry. Piss Off home & cause genocide somewhere else.
There is that Trollish enough for U?
Idiot!
Seeing as you are a UKIP member now, what are you even doing on this site? At least I vote BNP, whereas you should feel more at home cosying up with spineless Tories. You are the last person to be telling anyone to leave the site.
…we are not obsessed by it (darker side of Islam)….we in the BNP would counter it by emphasing our culture and values…not everything tolerated now would continue to be tolerated
Well, no mossie will vote for this.Good. It should give them all a foretaste of the eventual exit from our Christian lands of Islam.
I hope this is the intention of this BNP speech otherwise it`s just going to lose votes as typical appeasement and what the hell will happen next to the BNP if it goes down this route?
For now, I`ll wait. Maybe it`ll get UAF/EDL/TREV to choke and let the GE campaign succeed without costly distraction.
… what the £**k's going on ? … sucking-up to muslims ? … dam well hope not …
I smell more trolls.
Honestly, who are these people sucking up to Muslims? Not the BNP. We have a name for you types who come out with this guff… fairweather patriots. You are as much the problem as the Muslims.
Worth a try, getting a peace accord with Islam to defuse this whole situation, Nick has already said many times in return for us getting out of Arab Lands they should be prepared to accept muslims back.
If Muslims want an end to Mid east Wars, maybe they should stop voting LibLabCon and vote BNP.
This is ridiculously stupid. The whole fallacious notion of patriotism that for some inexplicable reason British people fruitlessly nurture, neglects the fact that Britain itself is most probably the worst country for committing atrocities on an international level. For instance, consider British India and colonialism in general- is that anything to be 'proud' of? 'Pride' is a pernicious abstract value- it is self-gratifying and isolates the individual- if you are obsessed with pride, feel pride for others and other cultures. As for the 'mosques' and the crap of 'islamification' which is irrefutably a myth, why are you disturbed by the beautiful aesthetics of culture? Fundamentally, it is juvenile that you think burkas remind you of suicide bombers and highwaymen- it's like saying that you're afraid of the dark! Nationalism and patriotism are imaginary concepts- once considered romantic but exposed for the evils they really are. It needs to be considered that you live in a world and not a country, and the world should be one's country. Palpably, the world is there to be embraced and all of its religions and cultures. If you were patriots then you would be anti-fascist as Britain fought WWII purely against fascism. I represent the convictions of most white and british 18 year old males like me, who are disillusioned with the rubbish of religious hostility and want nothing but religious pluralism and unification.
thanks.